Thursday, January 15, 2009

thought of the day.182

Life & Death

Living fully requires living fearlessly. This makes coming to terms with death one of the most important things we can do. Christianity would have us fear death, fear Satan and Jesus himself tells us to “fear God, who, after killing, has the authority to throw into hell. Believe me, he is the one you must fear!” These primitive toxic notions poison life.

But there is no need to fear death. No need to fear what cannot touch us. Epicurus said it best, “Death does not concern us, because as long as we exist, death is not here. And when it does come, we no longer exist.” And Mark Twain expressed the same sentiment like only he could: “I do not fear death. I had been dead for billions and billions of years before I was born, and had not suffered the slightest inconvenience from it.”

Another way to look at death is to recognize our connection to all that exists. Science tells us that atoms are so fantastically durable that it’s thought they can last nearly forever. This means we are made of practically indestructible eternal stuff. In his wonderful book, A Short History of Nearly Everything, Bill Bryson writes, “Because they are so long lived, atoms really get around. Every atom you possess has almost certainly passed through several stars and been part of millions of organisms on its way of becoming you. We are so atomically numerous and so vigorously recycled at death that a significant number of our atoms—up to a billion for each of us, it has been suggested—probably once belonged to Shakespeare. A billion more came from Buddha and Genghis Khan and Beethoven, and any other historical figure you name. (The personages have to be historical, apparently, as it takes the atoms some decades to become thoroughly redistributed; however much you may wish it, you are not yet one with Elvis Presley.)”

So though our consciousness most likely ceases upon death, in a sense, our journey will continue beyond our wildest imaginations.

13 comments:

Janet Greene said...

The thought of "nothingness" after death is terrifying to me, as I think it is for many people. In fact, I believe this is a very strong reason that people create religion. Most of us don't want to face the thought of non-existence.

I remember clearly when it first occurred to me on a visceral level that this could be the case. I was reading Dawkins "The God Delusion". As you know, Dawkins is a very "scientific atheist". He strongly believes that there is no consciousness, or anything, after death. It was the middle of the night, and I spent the rest of the night in absolute terror.

After that, I have struggled to cope with this possibility. However, the truth is that we do not really know what could happen. Energy does not just disappear - that energy could emerge as a form of consciousness after death. But I guess the way I look at it is that I would rather face the truth than be comforted by falsehood. Besides, once you know something is false (for me, religion falls into this category), you can't really go back and "believe" anyway. It's impossible. You can't believe something you find utterly unbelievable.

So that leaves mystery. Being a person who craves answers, it's hard for me to let go and acknowledge that we will probably not get those answers. At least not in my lifetime. This means I must take advantage of every moment of life because this is all any of us are guaranteed to have.

john evans said...

I think its quite clear that evolution hard-wired us to have a natural abhorence for death and the thought of nothingness to keep the species alive and multiplying.

But I think the point that Epicurus and Twain make is that we could never experience non-existence or nothingness. It’s an impossibility so we shouldn’t fear it in the least.

Sounds like you went through the proverbial dark night of the soul. I had a similar experience when I was letting go of God a few years ago. Mine was not so much terror but more of a disconcerting untethered, helpless feeling that lasted a couple of days. Of course, after adjusting to my new perspective I have come to find the journey resulting in my letting go of the idea of god to be the most rewarding thing I have ever done.

One of my many man-crushes, Carl Sagan, wanted truth over comfort too: “For me, it is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring.”

But of course no one can say for sure what happens upon death which leaves us to do as you suggested— take advantage of the moment!

Janet Greene said...

Another comment on evangelical christians' certainty about what happens after death. I found a terrific article that analyzes the New Testament and completely contradicts the traditional protestant view that we must 1) accept Jesus into our heart, 2) accept Jesus as lord and saviour, 3) admit that we will go to hell if we do not believe this, and 4) evangelize others so that they will not burn in hell (this is a general synopsis - I'm not pretending to be totally accurate or comprehensive about what evangelical protestants believe).

Anyway, this article really challenges this belief - the christian author claims that we (loosely translated) "read the bible with an eye patch on and only see what we want to see, what we have been told is there, and what others around us believe". Check it out!

http://www.biblicalheresy.com/WRGTH.pdf

Janet Greene said...

About your comment John, it seems somewhat contradictory that evolution does not prepare us for what is an eventuality for all of us! But as you say, it's to ensure the continuation of the species! I do not yet feel totally at peace about this, but I feel stronger all the time. I think what happened is that when I read that Dawkins book, I was particularly fragile. I had just left a very destructive marriage, and was not emotionally prepared for the impact of that book. Bad timing, I think. That was a couple of years ago, and today I feel so different. But I guess fear of nothingness is "nothing" when compared to facing a vengeful god who will delight in sending me to eternal damnation. I think also that my wiring was screwed up in my childhood - fear of death (because of christianity) has become very natural for me. As I grow and evolve, all the fear that I lived with my whole life has begun to disappear, including this one. I make a choice each day to live with curiosity and courage, not fear. But the courage part does not come naturally!

john evans said...

I don’t think courage comes easily for any of us, guess that’s why we value it. I am probably guilty of being a bit cavalier with the whole topic of death here. Though I experienced the loss of my dad as a young teenager I am a long way from my own death-at least natural death- so it is easy for me to preach about not fearing it. I wonder if I will be quite so confident when I’m a broken down old man laying on my death bed in diapers. Yeesh!-I think I will make plans to ride my bike off a cliff at the Grand Canyon before that happens!

But seriously, I find the thought of nothingness infinitely more appealing than contemplating the possibility of a hell. How could anyone possibly have peace knowing even one person was being endlessly tortured?

And thanks for the “heresy” article link -looks interesting.

Anonymous said...

I believe death is a scary thought for many people. What ever side one chooses to be on religious OR non religious. It is a fear of the unknown.

I've lost many people who I would give anything just to see for 5 minutes again. I would love to think I could see these people when I die, But I know the reality of this to happen is slim to none. I personally feel that life as we know it, Is all that we really DO know.

I also feel religion is a "coping" mechanism for the unknown and for death. You will always here preachers say when a child is killed especially in a violent matter that "God has a plan for the child and we do not know that exact plan". I think this is a screwed up ideology cause NO loving god would allow an innocent child to be harmed or die a terrible death.

I disagree also with Christianity that if you don't repent and ask for god's forgiveness for your sins, Accept Jesus christ into your heart there will be eternal damnation (hell) for your sins. This invokes fear in people.

Christianity "feeds" off peoples fears and uses it to brain wash them to be "followers" of god.

I know I got a little of subject but however one wants to believe happens when we die is and will always remain a mystery. Nobody knows, Especially preachers......

john evans said...

Hey Brian,

Thanks for your thoughts. I think you are right on target with your comment that the fear of death and the unknown gave rise to religion.

You mind sharing what your background is as it relates to religion?

Anonymous said...

Sure John I'll share my background with you. I did not grow up in a religious OR non religious home as a child. What I mean by that is I was never forced to go to church or practice a religion yet it wasn't denied for me either.

I did attend church some as a kid mainly to spend time with my Uncle who would not attend church, But he would pick us up on Sunday from church. I was raised around Christian believers and started questioning it as a teenager. Before I go into that I want to say a few things first.

My Grandmother was EXTREMELY religious and my Grandfather wasn't. He was also a terrible Alcoholic who physically abused my father on a daily bases which my Grandmother found to be "OK" since she felt my father and his brothers were "Disobeying" my grandfather to force him to abuse them. All of which was acceptable to her according to the bible.

My father grew up to not physically abuse me or my sister but he did verbally abuse us daily. He carried so much anger from his childhood. He thought he was raising us better since he did not do what his father did as a parent. He would say things like "Your to obey your mom and dad cause the bible said so". This meant listen to whatever screaming and put downs he could come up with cause of the anger he had bottled inside.

Then I started going to church on Sunday's not cause I was afraid if I didn't I would go to hell, But it was an escape from my father. Also I could see my Uncle. Afterward church my sister and I spent Sunday afternoon with him and my Aunt's.

My uncle was truly the best man I've ever known Or will know. He was non judgemental and would help anyone in need. Just a great man who never had a bad word to say about anyone. He quit attending church in his 30's cause the preacher started casting judgement on people and telling them how to politically vote.

He died when I was 14 and I can remember asking the preacher if my uncle would be ok since he didn't attend church and the preacher told me "Sorry, But more than likely he will end up in hell since he wouldn't attend church".

I stopped going to church all together. Some of the worst people I knew at the time attended church regularly and if there was a god who would condemn a man as good as my uncle for not going to church and "sav" the one's I knew going to church I didn't want anything to do with that sort of god.

Then I started questioning more when I was 19 my cousin who was 5 years old at the time was run over by a car while riding his bicyle across the street. The preacher told us "God has a plan and we don't know that exact plan".

That's unacceptable looking at a 5 year old dead in a coffin. The I started to think there couldn't be a "loving God".

I tried to read the bible but being a logical deep thinker it did not make a bit of sense to me. I was alway asking questions to religious people. In return they never could give me a straight answer. Some even said I was "Evil" to ask questions about the bible!

Then for 5 years I was "fortunate" enough to work for a Preacher who was my immediate supervisor at my job. I asked questions about the bible and was always hit with hostility from him and another supervisor who was a preacher to.
They never had the answers even when I had a logical question I needed an answer to.

I also found out something working for a preacher for 5 years. It's a false front. He appeared to be a kind loving man, But in my opinion evil. I watched him set people up to fire them then lie right to them and say "I'll be praying for you and your family". I watched him use people in every way to make himself look better to the owner yet never tell the truth about who deserved the credit. I watched his own grandchild die at 6 weeks old and he wouldn't even leave work to go be with his son cause he said "Jesus had a plan for the baby".

All of this made me look in depth the practices of religion and I tried to make sense of it all. What I found was I couldn't reason or discuss religion with a christian. Also it was sick the way many of them looked at Revelations in the bible as something to be looking forward to. If it was to truely happen there isn't a scarier horror movie that could be made than that. Christians welcome it!

I finally was at peace a few years ago when I decided not to accept any religion. I'm to much of a thinker and look at logic. Evolution makes much more since to me then the bible. I feel the people who wrote the bible were just good story tellers. Almost like Stephen King of today.

I do look forward to learning more from this blog and from others on here.....

Anonymous said...

Sorry about all the typo's. Hopefully you can see how religion has effected my life.

john evans said...

Thank you so much for sharing all that, Brian. It always fascinates and often infuriates me to hear how religious ideas have fu*ked with different people’s lives. So sorry to hear that your dad and his siblings endured biblically justified beatings and that you in turn suffered the verbal abuse no doubt a manifestation of the anger your father carried within him.

So much to comment on...the callousness of preachers claiming the deaths of children to be the will of God, the way Christians happily anticipate the psychotic scenes of Revelation, the way they demonized you for asking questions. Toxic stuff.

Glad you’re here and don’t think twice about any typos-we all make em and it’s the thoughts that count!

Anonymous said...

Thanks John it feels good to have a place to sound off on this subject.

I know there are many more people out there that have endured as much or more than I have. I'm just one of many. I've discussed this with people like myself. Always different childhoods, But the same outcome cause we are victims of religion and it's damages.

It's sickening to see this abuse that is so overlooked in the name of religion. Hopefully with the internet and more people online, this awful thing can be brought to the spotlight for all to see.

Shelley De Ceault Frew said...

Re: Blog Thought 182, I believe, “Life and Death”

You referenced, Matthew 10:28 attributed Jesus, when He was talking specifically to his disciples concerning the religious establishment of the day that hated him (most often referenced as the Pharisee, but the other 2 religious groups hated Him as well). When looking at a verse, go back to the start of the paragraph to get the complete unit of thought. Verses are arbitrary divisions not found in the original documents and can lead to misinterpretation of the scripture in question. The verses are here only to make reading easier for modern day readers, but NOT intended to be used as hermeneutical (interpretive) devices.
The document (Bible ) itself is an historical document written to a first century agriculturally based, Middle Eastern culture, so some concept are lost in translation unless you study the life of the people involved to better understand firstly, what that means to them, then it sheds light on what it can mean for us today. Also, it was a cultural part of the language to speak in extreme terms to emphasize importance, much like it is today still in the middle East, like when we hear Jihad audio portions will totally destroy and conquer the Western world today, that language is cultural/ extreme to put emphasis on the message too. While literal in its meaning, it is also understood to the original audience that extreme language is being used. Matt.10:28:"And do not fear those (the religious establishment of the day who were already seeking a way to put Christ to death. Christ had them by the balls, forgive my language, and they hated him for that as his popularity among the common folk-including those shunned by the religious of the day: poor, sick, average lower status in society-continued to grow)who kill the body (the disciples are timid in the face of the religious persecution they experience, plus Christ is preparing them for service when He knows at a point He will no longer be with them), but are unable to kill the soul; but rather fear Him (fear earlier meant in original lang: "that which is caused by intimidation of adversaries", but in reference to God a different Hebrew word for fear is used meaning:"reverential"-there's more to the def., but I will stop at that summary)who is able to destroy both soul and body in hell." Merely stating God's eternal power and the end result after mankind in their freewill choose their own spiritual journey apart from the spiritual principles He set up to rescue mankind from hell. You must not stop at verse 10:28, however, as it is taken out of context to not include the whole until of thought through verse 33 of the passage. Christ goes on to reassure the disciples of God's care for individuals when he elaborated in Matth 10:29-31 "Are not two sparrows sold for a cent (these birds were very inexpensive, not used as sacrifices so not valuable) and yet not one of them will fall to the ground apart from your Father (knowing). But the very hairs of your head are all numbered. Therefore do not fear (God in trembling sort of way), you are of more value than many sparrows”. The thought is finished in vesre 34, in 33-34 He hmatter of factly informs them of the spiritual principles surrounding salvation (which is yet to be understood by the disciple, so different is it from God’s Old Covenant which they are still participating in). Thought those interpretive tips might help you. Also, what version of the bible do you have? I recommend 2: NASV, most closely translated to original language, then a paraphrase, which I love, The Message by Eugene Peterson, translated by phrases and current day vernacular to try to remove some of the cultural obstacle that can cause confusion from the nearly 2000 year old writing.
In reference to the quotes from Psalms and Lamentations, “God devouring man like a lion”, or something like that, and about babies being slashed from their mother stomachs (Psalms, by the Warrior King David-that was not an uncommon brutality inflicted on conquered peoples back in that time period. The warfare employed against Israel was often far more brutal than their methods in warfare.) The genre o Psalms is to be read as poetry. There is a pattern of calling out to God In gut wrenching honesty (what David wished God would do to Israel’s enemies), the pattern is that the psalms (written to be put to music), often ended in praise of God, His attributes, His salvation etc. They are meant to encourage believers to be a gut wrenchingly honest with God about our emotional realities as opposed to the pious nonsense prayers of the time period, it is meant to emphasize intimacy with God verses pious, sterile prayers with no heart felt content. Also, the implication is that God is indeed interested in us sharing our innermost thoughts. HE knows them anyway, but the benefit is for us to experience HIM as caring and loving. That concept was drastically opposed to the current thinking of the day on how to relate to a god. Jehovah God was setting Himself apart from the hundreds of other Gods worshipped in that time period. I find Lamentations to be refreshing. They are the musings of a man God devoted 2 of the 66 books of the bible to, that being Jeremiah. What freedom to have the audacity to tell a Diety what you really feel about him and live to tell about it, that was a radical difference in thinking of the day! Also, the genre of the booik is poetry nd meant to be taken as poetic in nature with many figures of speech meant to ampliphy its beauty. The book represents the death wail/dirge of Jerusalem, pictured as a widowed and disgraced princess. It is referring to the destruction of Jerusalem and the temple,a nd the book became National songs commemorating the eventual destruction of the temple. Historically, the siege itself in 70 AD was absolutely atrocious and horrific. I would have to study more about the fall of the city to elaborate as I do not want to impart inaccurate information.
Hey, if you include your biblical references on your blog, you’ll save me time chasing them down in my concordance! :0) Will keep up with the blog, and actually learn how to post there. Just MY thought for the day on your thoughts of the other day. Also, pardon my typos…my tremors are bad today!

john evans said...

Hi Shelley!
So nice to have your perspective on my blog! Boy, you cover a lot of ground!

Let me just ask this. With what you know of the bible, does any one today have any need to fear this God?