Tuesday, January 6, 2009
thought of the day.176
Christianity asserts we are so inherently wretched as to be deserving of unimaginable torture forever and ever. In stark contrast, science shows we are not fallen but risen—not children of a jealous and bloodthirsty god, but children of the stars and inextricably connected to all that exists.
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12 comments:
Was does assert about the nature of human beings?
Science shown we are not fallen but risen? Risen from what exactly? Why is there still evil?
Most recently, we arose from a single cell over a half billion years ago. Long before that, the materials of life formed inside giants stars before being spit into space as they exploded in death.
As to why there is still evil? Why would there not be. Evil actually did not exist (at least on earth) until relatively recently. Nature has no evil in it apart from humans. Nature is amoral. It was only when we evolved a consciousness capable of labeling things as evil did it come into being.
Where did the single cell come from?
Where did the "materials of life formed inside giant stars" come from?
How do you account for natural disasters that cause all kinds of suffering? Tornadoes, hurricanes, earthquakes?
So evil is only a perception?
Where did the single cell come from?
Have not figured that one out yet.
Where did the "materials of life formed inside giant stars" come from?
I am no science teacher but the heavier elements formed naturally as byproducts of the incredible heat and pressure.
here is a great site: http://www.historyoftheuniverse.com/tl1.html
How do you account for natural disasters that cause all kinds of suffering? Tornadoes, hurricanes, earthquakes?
Products of the forces of nature.
So evil is only a perception?
Yes. The religious zealots that flew planes into the world trade center saw there acts as godly and of course most of the rest of the world saw them as evil.
Do you believe matter is eternal or did it have a beginning?
Do you think our perceptions can be flawed?
Perception of the world trade center: You said some saw it as evil, others as godly.
Based on the law of non contradiction, both perceptions can't be right.
Labels can be true if they correspond with reality. Do you think the events that happened on 9/11 were something other than evil?
Do you believe matter is eternal or did it have a beginning?
MY guess is space/time ultimately works in a way we cannot fully comprehend making ideas like eternity and beginning lose any meaning.
Do you think our perceptions can be flawed?
ALL our perceptions are flawed to a degree.
Perception of the world trade center: You said some saw it as evil, others as godly.
Based on the law of non contradiction, both perceptions can't be right.
I disagree. Though you and I and most reasonable people would agree it was an evil act there is no final authority to settle such things.
Labels can be true if they correspond with reality. Do you think the events that happened on 9/11 were something other than evil?
Well, there obviously were all kinds of events, some selfless, heroic, compassionate acts but I assume you are speaking of the terrorist acts. Again, to us they were the definition of evil. To the terrorists and their families they were not terrorists but national heros that would be rewarded with virgins in paradise.
Try thinking of all the stories in the bible from the Others perspective. For instance where as Christians and Jews see any act (including genocide) as good if done by their God, the Egyptian people saw God’s acts of slaughter as the definition of evil and actions of a Demon not God. (of course I read most all of the OT as myth and war propaganda used to manipulate and motivate the Jewish people to do what they had to to survive in a barbaric world)
You say all perceptions are flawed. This self refutes. I am not trying to bait you here, but do you think there is anything we can know with certainty?
I'm trying to understand your epistemology.
100% certainty?
No.
I think everything should be put on a scale of probability. Many things can be considered so probable that it is reasonable to just go a head and say we are 100% certain but since we cannot say for sure that we are not all simply characters in some giant gnome’s weird dream, all perceptions, all truths, are only tentative.
When we are not 100 % certain about something we theorize and speculate right?
Isn't that what science does? Theory and speculation?
Of course. Making hypothesis is a fundamental aspect of science and of course science never has all the answers but is always refining.
We have definitely evolved as humans. Just look at the last century. We no longer accept black people sitting in the back of the bus; we no longer tolerate discrimination against women (for the most part); we are finally getting a clue about hitting children. We are far more sensitive about human rights violations in our own backyard (such as the Canadian apology to the Aboriginals a year or so ago).
The United States just elected an African American president who is not only educated, but thoughtful, moral and wise. Imagine that happening in the 1960's!
War has always been, especially since the age of patriarchy. Cruelty has always been (if you believe the old testament, look no further). We are still a warring people, but we have come a long way, baby! But we still have a long way to go. Unfortunately, it is usually christians that prevent us from evolving further. They fought against the earth being round; they fought against the law of gravity; they fought abolition of slavery; they fought women's suffrage/feminism and respect for equality. In spite of christians, however, the freethinkers have forged again, and then eventually teh christians have to get on board.
I am assuming that this will happen soon with the issues of homosexuality, and creationism. Hopefully sometime in the next generation, we will be amused at ourselves that these were ever even ISSUES at all.
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