Thursday, January 21, 2010

thought of the day.381

Dust in the wind. Fleeting shadows. Carpe diem!
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8 comments:

Anonymous said...

Carpe diem, I agree!

Where I think I differ, though - carpe diem for what?

January 21, 2010 at 3:23 PM
john evans said...

For what? For me! For my family, for my friends and neighbors. Seize the day so that I may sleep soundly each night, knowing I have been physically and mentally engaged... hopefully spreading some cheer, learning some thing, etc. I read a cool thing the other day about making each day a piece of art. What a cool way to think about one’s day!

January 21, 2010 at 6:16 PM
Anonymous said...

Yup, and if you've ever seen Dead Poet's Society there's a line where Robin Williams says (this may not be an entirely accurate quote, I'm going from memory) "The powerful play goes on, and you may contribute a verse."

But what is the value? How do you create value for your life? I personally seize the day because I want to go out and make a difference in someone or multiple someones' eternity, but you have no eternity. You die and your eighty or ninety years were nothing and the stars spin on. "Human destiny is an episode between two oblivions." (Nagel)

Even if your actions did mean anything, they weren't yours to choose. Everything that you do is entirely brought about by either nature or nurture; the chemical layout of your brain and the way that you were brought up are what determine your choices. You had no say in any of it. In fact, you don't even have a say in what you're going to reply to me, because it's only chemical reactions in your brain and the knowledge that you've taken in at previous points in your life being regurgitated through the keyboard onto this web page. It's all determined. What's the point? Where's the value?

January 22, 2010 at 3:19 PM
john evans said...

Dead Poet’s is one of my favorites! Great quote.

You find your meaning in doing things because you believe they have eternal consequences. That’s wonderful. I find my meaning in the now. Now is all I have for sure. I have no way of knowing about any eternity or should I say I have no compelling evidence for such a thing. So I can say “F#@! it all, I am going to crawl in a hole and die now” or I can say,“the best I can possibly do is face life honestly and make the most of it”. Believe it or not but I get more joy—feel like I have more intellectual integrity— by having that attitude than I ever got from believing the doctrines of Christianity.

So I am only a shadow passing between oblivions? It doesn’t matter. It won’t bother me at all when I no longer exist just as it did not bother me at all before I was born.

Your comments in the last paragraph are very astute for anyone, especially someone your age. I sure admire the amount of thought you have put into life! Christian or whatever, that kind of effort is its own reward. You will reap the benefits of all that thinking the rest of your life. You may be exactly right. Probably are. Of course you are in the same boat as me. It is very difficult to understand how much if any, truly free will we really have. But I think we have to go about our lives as if we have control over our actions. We of course must accept responsibility for them.

Finally, as I have said before, the fact that I only have a few years here makes my time all the more precious. On the other hand, what is 80 years to a Christian looking forward to eternity? That is one of the crimes of Christianity to my mind. That it relegates this world and this time to a secondary status.

January 22, 2010 at 3:53 PM
Anonymous said...

Ah, on the contrary. I've only got 80 years to spread the word to as many people as I can - to learn as much as I can, to use the knowledge to make as many compelling arguments as I can, to seek out as many people as I can and explain everything as best I can - so that I can bring them into eternity with me! I go to school, I go on mission trips, I go to church and youth group, I comment on people's blogs ;) so that I can try and point them to the truth that I think is the truth.

It won't bother you when you no longer exist, but I think that even if I was somehow compelled to give up belief in God, then the notion that my life is literally nothing in between nothings and I have no meaning would be too big of a block for me to get over. It's like, you can say that you "find your meaning" in the now, but even if you've managed to get to the point where it doesn't bother you and where you still enjoy the now, you literally have no meaning. You haven't found meaning; you have found a way to have some fun in light of absurdity.

January 23, 2010 at 12:31 AM
john evans said...

Your passion to “save” people is commendable and I agree that in the long run it is all absurd—at least as far as we know. But in the short term our actions have immense meaning. Again, just facing these facts honestly is very meaningful to me. To try to wrap myself in a comforting delusion (name a religion) seems to be morally and intellectually reprehensible.

I didn’t create reality. I am just here. I don’t get to make the rules and no matter how much I might wish it were different, all my wishing won’t change a thing. So best to be a grownup about it all.

January 23, 2010 at 6:48 AM
Anonymous said...

If you want to be truly intellectually honest, naturalism leads straight to nihilism. If naturalism is followed to its logical conclusion, it becomes nihilism.

Like I said, there isn't really meaning...there's only a small bit of defiance in trying to enjoy life in spite of absurdity.

January 23, 2010 at 11:34 AM
john evans said...

You know, I just got back from a kick-ass fast 60 mile bike ride with a couple dozen friends. Got to visit a bit afterwards at the sub shop. Will spend some time with the family and do a little work later. Maybe do some reading and watch a little tv. My life is full and I have never been happier. Far more happy than I ever was as a Christian. Far more content. I have no need of what I consider “childish” myths to give my life meaning. I have all the meaning I need. My facing the world as it is (as the evidence suggests it is) is fascinating to me. I feel enriched knowing the facts of evolution. I look forward to learning more everyday. I learned yesterday that we now have a good idea just when different parts of our bodies developed. From fingernails to chins. Very cool! I feel “blessed” if you will to be here and healthy and able to enjoy my friends and family and work and nature and all the rest. I have no time for nihilism.

January 23, 2010 at 12:43 PM

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