Tuesday, December 15, 2009

thought of the day.355

Any being that would create a place of eternal torture is a demon not a god and worthy of condemnation not praise.
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4 comments:

Anonymous said...

Hell was created for Satan and the fallen angels, not for humans.

December 16, 2009 at 1:22 PM
john evans said...

Kelsie, I sure admire your tenacity. You always have good comments and you are always quite respectful. Just wanted to say thanks. Nice having someone to talk these things through with!

To your comment. I suppose one could make that argument based on some of the bible verses but you also have to acknowledge that if “God” is supposedly all-knowing he knew before creating Hell that he was going to torture countless people there forever.

Also, it matters not who he created it for. No one, not even the Devil (if he existed) deserves torture let alone eternal torture. What is the point? It is not to rehabilitate. It is purely vindictive. To cause unnecessary suffering of any creature is wicked and to actually torture a sentient creature is the definition of evil in my book.

December 16, 2009 at 4:20 PM
Anonymous said...

Satan does deserve Hell. He got so full of himself that he tried to place himself above God. I know you don't believe in Satan or God, but if there was an angel who God had created and who was one of the most glorified angels, and suddenly the angel decided he was actually better than God and started an uprising to remove God from his place, would you say that was wrong?

Actually for that matter, while I was writing that I realized, how do we decide what people "deserve" and what they don't? If we go with situational ethics...

Yes, God being all knowing tends to tie one's mind in a knot. I've wrestled with that a good deal. I think it's rather like a book that you've already read. You know what happens in the beginning, the middle, and the end, but that doesn't mean that you're forcing the characters to make the decisions they do.

Now obviously the analogy falls short because you could say that God as the author of said book had to force all the decisions. The weird thing is, being somewhat of a writer myself (I finished my first full length novel in November! :)), when you have the story laid out in your mind before you've started writing at all, you think that you want the characters to go a certain way and do a certain thing. But characters actually do have a way of surprising you once you figure out what sort of quirks and things you want to write into your story. Obviously, I'm still the one who actually types out what it is my character does, but ask any novelist: the "decisions" your character "makes" often surprise you and they weren't what you planned on.

Again, this half of the analogy falls short, because God is all knowing and nothing we do surprises him, per se. But that part of the analogy is to show the fact that we can still make decisions despite God being omniscient. It's still people's choice to reject him.

(All of that made sense to me, but I'm not sure how well I laid it out on paper. If that didn't make much sense, let me know.)

December 17, 2009 at 12:37 PM
john evans said...

I understand the human desire for vengeance, I just don’t think that is an emotion that we need to put behind us. To become fully human is to be fully humane. Wishing suffering upon anyone is wrong. My guess is if there was a real god, that god would be terribly saddened that we think he/she/it would create a hell. It is crystal clear to me, that the whole idea is a very primitive concept from small, ignorant minds.

To your question about it being wrong for satan to try to usurp god’s position of power. Sure. But it does not justify torture. Confinement and rehabilitation/education maybe but never is torture justified. That makes the supposed good guy god into the bad guy.

I don’t think we should look at crimes in the light of what “they deserve” so much as what is best for the society. If it means keeping some one away from society forever than so be it. Or if the person is not a real danger perhaps a short period behind bars or a fine or community service is the appropriate consequence for their behavior. But the sentence should be given with the intent to correct the behavior—to impress upon the person that they should not do it again—so as to make for a happier, safer society not to punish or give them what they deserve.

I think its really great that you wrestle with thoughts like omniscience. I think your analogy is a very good one. But I don’t think it gets the biblegod off the hook. If he knew all was gonna go to hell in a hand basket before he ever made Adam and Eve he is responsible for all the suffering. Of course, I think it is all myth but it is nonetheless impressive that you are working to get your mind around it.

Congratulations on your novel! I would love to read it. Can I buy a copy?

December 17, 2009 at 11:00 PM

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