Test of Faith. Joshua
Upon entering the city of Jericho, God’s people
A. shared a message of hope and forgiveness
B. killed everyone, men and women, young and old
God made the sun stand still while his people
A. distributed food and clothing
B. committed genocide
Needing a place to live, God’s people
A. searched for uninhabited land flowing with milk and honey
B. attacked a city, killed its people, and claimed it for themselves
Joshua 6:20-21, 10:12-14, 19:47
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John, day after day you do these quotes & questionnaires that highlight the repugnant immorality of the bible. But I don't think I have yet seen one of your christian bloggers directly respond. You may say "don't take it out of context". Please explain to me! What is the context for these passages? And it's not just a few here and there - it is the bulk of the bible. The bible clearly depicts God as angry, unpredictable, jealous, murderous, racist, clearly does not respect human life. And Jesus came to fulfill the law. Did the nature of god change 2000 years ago so that he's now a gentle and merciful god? But doesn't the bible say that god is the same yesterday, today and forever? What about the bible inspires you to believe that it was written/inspired by god himself? Wouldn't a book written by the creator of the universe be quite exceptional - beyond reproach - full of amazing moral advice that stands the test of time? I'm quite sure I could write a book that is more inspirational, accurate, and moral than the bible. And I'm just a "regular joe". I really would appreciate comments from either christians or non-believers.
Janet, you’re right. Even when I know Christians have read my mad ramblings highlighting the holy horrors of the bible they have nothing to say. My guess is that religious belief is very complex in that it is tied to our deepest fears and greatest hopes and feelings of guilt and of course has such strong community/family ties that it makes looking at one’s belief objectively very difficult. I am sure it seems there is much to lose and little to gain by acknowledging the immorality of the bible and rejecting it.
And I so agree with you about how exceptional a book truly inspired by a Creator of the universe would be. Surely the words would dance and sing like no other literature and be filled with compassion and wisdom and scientific facts so beyond us that it might take thousands of years for us to confirm them. And surely all of this would be beautifully clear and concise unlike our bible which is full of repetition, contradiction, confusion and absolutely no different than what we would expect to come from the relatively ignorant people living 2,000-3,000 years ago.
I think Isaac Asimov said something like there was no more potent force for atheism than the bible.
There certainly is no more potent force for atheism in regard to the biblegod anyway.
Thanks for your response John. I want to share something else that is on my mind right now - I'm sorry that it's not directly related to this conversation.
I am watching a televangelist preaching, surprisingly, a very good sermon. He's talking about "spiritual gifts" and how the point of these gifts are not to serve ourselves, but to serve others and the common good. I don't think we hear this enough in christian circles. In fact, I don't believe that personal happiness is possible without serving others. It is a reminder of our connection to each other and this message has been lost in this self-involved culture. However, I think a major point was missed.
When I was a child, my parents told me that JOY was through loving Jesus, Others, You. In that order. I never got that. For one thing, I could not, no matter how much I tried, conjure up "love" for a being I had never seen or felt. I was numb for most of my life and felt very little. I had been taught that we were sinful beings; that our bodies were merely vessels for the soul and is not very important. It is the SOUL that matters. The result of that belief was untold damage as I systematically took over the work my parents had started - to disrespect my body and physical well-being. I did this through eating disorders, smoking, drugs, even obsessive reading through the night that left me exhausted and drained the next day. This was because of the brainwashing I had received as a child with wrong-headed and perverted ideas of separation of "body and soul". Through aboriginal spirituality, I started to realize that we are holistic beings; our "soul" is really our brain chemistry (and maybe more, although we can't know this for sure) and that when one suffers, the rest of us suffers too. Can't be separated. I felt guilty most of my life because of my inability to want to serve others but rather just medicate my own pain.
Now I know how this "serving others" thing works. It is not through being told we must do this because god demands it. We cannot demand love either. Not for god, not for anyone. What must happen is we must get to the root of our own neediness; find freedom from our fears and oppression and then, with a "full cup", we WANT to serve other people. We must feed ourselves first. We cannot be much help to others when we are empty, depressed, and drained ourselves. This can never be commanded of us.
I now spend much of my time helping others. It is because, through various means such as anti-depressants (don't need them anymore), positive affirmations, "de-programming" myself from my evangelical and dark childhood, I now often feel overwhelming joy and gratitude. I know now that when I am unable to love others, there is something that I need to do for myself first. Self-nurture FIRST or we have nothing to give. This is where self-esteem comes in. Without it, we are useless to the world for the most part. Or we do good for others out of a sense of duty, which leaves us feeling taken advantage of or tired.
It seems as though "self-esteem" is a dirty word for christians. They seem to consider it a threat to their belief system. I think it's because people with healthy self-esteem don't fall for lies and propoganda. Rational people who are not taken in by fear tactics cannot be controlled through fear and therefore cannot be controlled PERIOD.
I do think that we have a very "hedonistic" culture. When I follow the lives of celebrities, I am saddened and moved by compassion. Many of them seem to feel terribly empty and have missed the point. But as I've shared before, I find the cult of celebrity similar to the cult of religion. It's not about looking inside and discovering, and creating, who you are. It's about following EXTERNAL forces who tell you what you should be, what your image should be, constantly in the pursuit of some kind of elusive perfection.
Happiness, self-esteem, and the ability to serve others comes from letting go of the concept of our sinful nature; to stop thinking that only perfection will get us into heaven (through Jesus' sacrifice on the cross). We are called to be FULLY HUMAN, not to be perfect.
I am so grateful that I found this out before my life was over. I would have spent the rest of my life feeling that I should love people, and pretending to love them. Now, I can actually FEEL this love. For myself and for others.
I have not read this through and am hoping it makes sense to other people. But I felt compelled to share this right now.
One of the books you list on your page is Guy P Harrison "50 Reasons People Give for Believing in God". Harrison is on a radio program on youtube - very interesting. This is the link:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_v8d6dI4FEY
Janet, agree with all you said. And just listened to the interview-great stuff. Thanks as always for adding so much to my anemic little posts!
John, I don't think I've ever disagreed with you. Here's the first time. I don't find your posts "anemic" - I find that they consistently drive home a message about the bible and christianity. I have been suggesting your blog to various people that I connect with on religious sites (only the legit/respectful ones). I really appreciate that I have a safe place to put my thoughts. Thanks John.
I want to clarify my comment "i spend much of my time helping others". I should put this in context. What I mean is that my career path is geared toward helping those who are suffering. I didn't want to come off as some kind of "atheist saint" because those who know me would laugh their heads off at that one.
John, don't know if you've ever heard of the comedian Pat Condell. If not, I think you will REALLY enjoy this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=atTSwau9fwM&feature=related
Yes, Pat is great! Thanks for the link.
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