Lying for Jesus
"And often it is necessary to deceive, and to do the greatest benefits by means of this device, whereas he who has gone by a straight course has done great mischief to the person whom he has not deceived."
~John Chrysostom, "Treatise on the Priesthood, Book 1,"
"To be right in everything, we ought always to hold that the white which I see, is black, if the Hierarchical Church so decides it"
~ Ignatius Loyola, Spiritual Exercises
"What harm would it do, if a man told a good strong lie for the sake of the good and for the Christian church … a lie out of necessity, a useful lie, a helpful lie, such lies would not be against God, he would accept them."
~Martin Luther
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4 comments:
John,
Do you think it's wrong to lie or deceive?
Like everything, it depends on the situation. There are certainly times when lying/deceiving is the right thing to do. But if one feels compelled to lie and deceive for the glory of their god as these men seem to be doing there certainly seems to be a problem don’t you think?
You are still a relativist with regard to morality right?
You are making an argument against Chrysostom, Ignatius and Luther inconsistent with the tenets of relativism.
You are proving a point that I have tried to make with you for a long time now. Relativism is unlivable. You prove it to be the case by passing judgement on these men. You couldn't possibly do that if you truly believed that relativism were true.
You may in theory hold to relativism, but your actions belie what you really believe as you can't say what you've said without belief in objective truth.
Objective? Please. You know, Sooner, I really have no desire to argue these points with you. We have conversed about these things off and on for quite some time and yet we both see things very differently and I doubt either one of us will ever change our position.
I imagine you feel you are doing your best to make the world a little better place by spreading Christianity. I feel my “calling” to make the world a better place is by helping to free people from Christianity and other beliefs in the supernatural. I guess at this point maybe we can just respect each other’s intentions even if we don’t respect the perspective.
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