Religion Divides — Again
“It was during recess at one of Santa Barbara’s adorable, sun-spangled elementary schools that Ashley, a sprightly 6-year-old, approached her first-grade classmate Emma near the swing sets and delivered the bad news.
“You can’t go to heaven.”
“Ashley had already determined that Emma, the only Jewish girl in her class, did not believe in Jesus.
“Emma protested, but Ashley persisted. “If you don’t believe in Jesus, you are going to hell.”
Without religion, these two girls might have been enjoying recess jumping rope together or perhaps braiding each other’s hair. But due directly to religion— and the Good News Club that taught Ashley that her unbelieving friends would suffer in hell—they found themselves divided into the saved and the damned, the right and the wrong—the good and the evil—and their friendship and both their views of life and others was poisoned. This divisiveness and poisoning of perspectives in young children is perhaps the greatest crime of religious superstition.
Read the excellent story by Katherine Stewart at
www.independent.com/news/2009/may/07/reading-writing-and-original-sin/
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13 comments:
Sounds like a smart little girl! Almost like me, when I was 6, except I was a little less direct with the "going to Hell" and instead tended to ask people "Are you a Christian?"
That article was obviously biased, so I guess I'll give my side of the whole thing. The club has got the right idea going, definitely, for spreading Christianity. Simplifying the ideas and presenting them to children is a great way to go at it! Children can be the biggest influence on their families and friends. "From the mouths of babes..." :-)
“Simplifying the ideas and presenting them to children is a great way to go at it! Children can be the biggest influence on their families and friends.”
The Taliban thinks so too.
Seems more respectful of a child to wait until they are old enough to decide on their own if Christianity, Islam, Judaism, Wicca, or whatever makes sense. They little choice in the matter at such a young age. And if it is wrong for the Taliban to fill a child’s head with ideas of who is saved and who is damned then it is wrong for the Good News Club to do so too.
And why is spreading Christianity good? Do you think the little Christian girl was somehow a better person than the little Jewish girl? Do you think the family of the little Christian girl was somehow a better family than that of the little Jewish girl? Why should you be excited about the spread of Christianity? Perhaps because it validates your own view? Or is it because you are so terribly concerned about the little Jewish girl and her family being tortured by your God? And if so, why would you love such a fiend? Is it out of fear that he will burn you if you don’t?
Umm...you seem to have a mistaken view on a lot of aspects of Christianity.
First of all, Hell was not created for people, it was created because of Satan, and for Satan and his fallen angels. People got themselves there when Adam and Eve decided to listen to Satan and disobey God. (It's called the Fall.)
Secondly, I didn't say anything about Christians being better than Jews. Jews are God's chosen people. I love them too. They're his beloved. But, they have mistaken views. They're waiting for a new messiah who will never come, because he already has. And when Jesus comes the 2nd time, it will be too late for them to change their views. So, evangelizing to them maybe could help them see the right view and they will be saved.
Thirdly, I love God because...well, for a lot of reasons. He knit me together in my mother's womb. He breathed the breath of life into me. He gave me the talents that I have. He loves me. He redeemed me. He died for me. He forgave me of my sins (which are a lot I'm sad to say. :( ) And he's coming again to get me and take me to Heaven and oh, I cannot wait for that day!!
And I'm just curious. If you think that a child should wait until they are old enough to decide for themselves what they believe, then shouldn't ALL the options be presented in schools? Instead of merely evolution being taught, why not teach that there are many different views, and here are all the views for you to go home, tell Mommy and Daddy what you learned today, and they'll help you sort through the views to find the ones you believe? This is what Christians want, a fair look at all the beliefs! Cover all the bases!
Your God knows all, right? So before he made hell he knew he would be burning billion and billions of people in it so don’t bother with the argument that it was not intended for people. Please!
And it wasn’t Adam and Eve that listened to Satan it was Eve that listened to a talking snake (that’s believable!) who happened to tell her the truth. Of course it is all myth.
So you want to save people from the awful place called hell that the Jesus you love so dearly is going to throw them into to burn in his specially designed fires and be eaten alive forever by his specially designed worms that never die. Seems to me like your Jesus is PSYCHO. Even if Jesus did all the nice things you say you love him for seems like burning your unbelieving friends and family would kind of make everything else irrelevant, no?
You say you can’t wait for Jesus to return? Whoa! Kind of selfish don’t you think? I mean have you read what is going to happen to the world’s animals and a third of all people on earth? You are looking forward to such suffering and mayhem? Scary.
I think religion should be taught in history class or social studies. But that is a totally different subject than evolution. Evolution is science. Religion is myth or philosophy.
But you can't teach evolution as a fact, first of all, because it is just a theory (and I could get into an argument about how it's not even that, but I won't.) And you ESPECIALLY can't teach evolution as a fact without also presenting the other beliefs in the world. Some people are atheists. Some people are Christians. Some are Jewish or Hindu or whatever. Evolution is not a world-wide accepted fact, so don't treat it like one.
Yes, God knows all. I'm going to try to explain this to you with an analogy; I hope it makes sense, even some Christians struggle with this question (i.e. predestination vs man's choice). So let's say that you have a book. You've read the book before, so you know what happens. However, merely reading the book does not mean that you are influencing the characters' decisions. You know what happens in the beginning, you know what happens in the end, and all that's in between, but you aren't writing their every move.
It's kind of like that with God. He knows the beginning, he knows the end, and everything in between, but the people on Earth are writing their own stories. Even though he knows what is going to happen, because he is set apart from time, he still isn't choosing for them.
"Even if Jesus did all the nice things you say you love him for seems like burning your unbelieving friends and family would kind of make everything else irrelevant, no?"
No. Because I've been on this earth for fourteen years so far, and I intend to be here as long as I can, and while I'm breathing I will tell as many people about Jesus as I can. There is no need for anyone who knows me to go to Hell, because I can't think of a single aspect of my life in which I have not made it inherently obvious that I am a Christian and here are my beliefs. If they go to Hell, it will be their own fault. As Spurgeon put it, they will have to climb over my body to walk through the gates of Hell.
And about my wanting to go to Heaven being selfish - Jesus promised not to come back until every ear had a chance to hear the Gospel. So no, it's not selfish of me. Everyone will have had their fair chance, and if they rejected it, that's their own fault, not mine.
Kelsie, You obviously don’t understand what a scientific “theory” is. It is not used like you and I would use the word. Do you realize that not one thing in all of the biological sciences makes sense apart from evolution?
Again, religion is religion. It is NOT science and so does not belong in a science class room. This was made clear most recently by a Christian judge in Dover, PA. You might want to look that up.
People clearly have different levels of compassion and intolerance for suffering. I personally would rather forego heaven if it meant even one sentient creature would suffer for eternity. You obviously have no such problem with it. I suppose few Christians do.
I do have a problem with people going to Hell. I have a huge problem with it. That's why I do as best as I can to keep people from it. That's why I evangelize.
That's really the only reason I'm even arguing with you here, other wise, what would be the point?
I think it is wonderful that you have a huge problem with hell. Does it trouble you that your God made it and keeps the fires burning and the worms biting?
I would suggest you study the origins of hell and you’ll learn the idea did not originate with the bible but predates it. It was simply a scare tactic to help keep people in line as they began living together in ever increasing numbers.
I also would suggest that rather than discussing these things with me or any other unbeliever for the sole purpose of trying to evangelize you do so in the interest of truth (getting a better understanding of reality.)
As always, I enjoy the conversation and wish you the best.
I already know Truth. :) However, if somebody presented me with a plausible counter option to what I believe is Truth, I would look at both my beliefs and their beliefs and decide which one I think is right. So far, I have found no plausible counter option for my Truth.
I already told you. My God made Hell for Satan and his angels, who deserve Hell. Not that humans don't. When they chose to follow Satan and his angels, they chose the same path as Satan which includes Hell. Hell is a place of God's wrath because they did not accept the way of grace that he provided. I don't see any reason to fault God for that.
Why no sympathy for Satan? Do you really think anyone no matter what they did deserves to be tortured? Forever? Torture hurts the torturer as much as the tortured. It hardens the heart.
Seems like your god needs some anger management classes. So much wrath! And it is not very graceful to torture people who don’t accept one’s grace. Just evil.
If there were 50 prisoners on death row, and the President pardoned all of them, and all of them refused to leave the prisoner or accept the pardon but instead insisted upon being executed by electric chair, and so they were, would that be ungraceful?
What if they made excuses? Like "Well, I've never seen the President, so I don't think he exists?" Or "The pardon may be good for you, but it's not good for me. Whatever works for me." Or "The President is such an awful, uncaring person for even executing prisoners in the first place. Seems like he needs some anger management classes. So much wrath. Why would I accept a pardon from someone like him?"
The analogy doesn’t quite work. If the President pardoned them, they would be escorted out of the prison.
Your God doesn’t escort anyone out of his prison. Not after 24 straight hours of inflicting unimaginable torture, nor a year, nor a million, nor a trillion years for then their suffering has just begun. Once he throws you in there is no early release for repentance or good behavior. Just ever more torture. What a diabolically disgusting notion!
I am ashamed of my species that we could entertain such a thought.
Hope you have a wonderful long weekend!
This is why the Christians are commanded to go into all the world and preach the gospel. This is why I continue to butt heads with stubborn people who have no intention of listening to me, for the sake of the one who might finally hear the truth and be saved from eternal torture. This is why I'm still talking to you...
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