Sunday, February 3, 2008

thought of the day.39

The words “under God” in the Pledge of Allegiance excludes unbelievers making the phrase “justice for all” ring hollow.

These word violate the First Amendment, are divisive, unjust, and un-American.
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12 comments:

homesicksooner said...

Un-American? Perhaps you need to study American History.

I would begin with a careful reading of the Mayflower Compact. Make sure you don't get a hold of a copy that has been conveniently edited by the revisionists.

January 4, 2009 at 9:46 PM
john evans said...

Our nation was founded on the authority of the people not a god.

January 5, 2009 at 11:30 AM
homesicksooner said...

Our country was founded by people who placed their own authority UNDER the authority of God. It was such theistic culture that God's authority was assumed. That's evident from the following quotes.

To say the phrase "under-God" is un-American is a denial of well documented facts. I know atheists don't like these facts, but lets not just sweep them under the rug and revise history to fit our own worldview.

Here are a few quotes from early American history!

"Religion is the only solid basis of good morals; therefore education should teach the precepts of religion, and the duties of man towards God.”
-Gouverneur Morris

"Let divines and philosophers, statesmen and patriots, unite their endeavors to renovate the age, by impressing the minds of men with the importance of educating their little boys and girls, of inculcating in the minds of youth the fear and love of the Deity...in short of leading them in the study and practice of the exalted virtues
of the Christian system.“
-Samual Adams in a letter to John Adams

"In contemplating the political institutions of the United States, I lament that we waste so much time and money in punishing crimes, and take so little pains to prevent them. We profess to be republicans and yet we neglect the only means of establishing and perpetuating our republican forms of government. That is, the universal education of our youth in the principles of Christianity by the means of the Bible.”
-Benjamin Rush, 1798

“Of all the dispositions and habits which lead to political prosperity, religion and morality are indispensable supports...In vain would that man claim the tribute of patriotism who should labor
to subvert these great pillars of human happiness, these firmest props of the duties of men and citizens...”
-George Washington


"Cursed is all learning that is contrary to the Cross of Christ"
-Princeton's founding statement, 1746

"In my view, the Christian Religion is the most important and one of the first things in which all children, under a free government, ought to be instructed...no truth is more evident to my mind than that the Christian Religion must be the
basis of any government intended to secure the rights and privileges of a free people.”
-Noah Webster 1836

"Statesmen, my dear Sir, may plan and
speculate for liberty, but it is Religion and
Morality alone, which an establish the Principles upon which Freedom can securely stand.
-John Adams, 1776

“The only foundation for...a republic is to be laid in Religion. Without this there can be no virtue, and without virtue there can be no liberty, and liberty is the object and life of all republican governments.”
-Benjamin Rush

“The Americans combine the notions of Christianity and liberty so intimately in their minds that it is impossible to make them conceive one without the other.”
-Alex De Tocqueville on American Democracy

January 6, 2009 at 9:50 PM
john evans said...

Well, first of all the first 6 presidents were Deists not Christians. But even if they were Christians surely America is not forever tied to a handful of men’s religious beliefs.

If America is to survive another 200 years it must be about what is just not what is tradition. Our founding fathers said something about all men being created equal but these words certainly rang as hollow to the slaves as Warren’s love does for homosexuals.

And please don’t bombard me with quotes. I of course could come back with quotes from Adams, Paine, Jefferson, Franklin, Lincoln and so on that make Christianity look silly and dangerous. We just end up using others’ thoughts rather than our own to argue our perspectives.

January 6, 2009 at 10:18 PM
homesicksooner said...

I will say this about the future of our country. The problem is not the government and the legislation of morality or things of that nature. The problem in our country is with the people. We've lost our desire to know and learn. We've lost our ethical foundations. We know nothing of contentment with what we have, we must always have more. Entertainment has become virtuous in our country. I could go on and on. The bottom line is that we have forgotten God and if we have hope for a future that is similar to our past we MUST return to God.

You didn't address my reason for the quotes. The phrase "under God" is not un-American. The premise of your initial post is false and you should remove it. The post might lead people astray.

Deism is theistic and absolutely not atheistic. One of the things the early deists favored was morality espoused in the Bible. The way that deism is defined today is very different from how deism was lived out in early America. Primary source material clearly shows this.

Keep in mind that when the founding fathers talk of religious liberty, or equality they are doing so in a theistic context. We take those phrases today and use them irresponsibly with little regard for the historical context in which they were spoken. Today we live in a pluralistic context. Everyone - Christians and atheist alike need to be more responsible.

Theism is the foundation of this great country, but pluralism and historical revisionism has obscured the truth of that foundation to the point that Americans (Christian and atheist alike) no longer recognize where we've come from.

January 7, 2009 at 6:05 AM
john evans said...

Is America a theocracy or democracy?

It really doesn’t matter what our founding fathers felt about religion. We have the evidence (as they did and stated as well) that is just plain foolish and dangerous to have government endorse any particular thoughts about religion.

Would it not be equally unjust if an atheist President managed to have the words of the pledge changed to say there is no god or put on money the words in god we do not trust. If a muslim president wanted to have daily white house Koran studies and have verses from the Koran read in public schools etc people would freak.

January 7, 2009 at 11:19 AM
john evans said...

And what is this “biblical morality” you keep referring to? I have never read a more immoral book. The phrase biblical morality is as nonsensical as the phrase immoral morality.

January 7, 2009 at 11:27 AM
homesicksooner said...

Are you going to edit the false premise in your post? Again, you might mislead people. Misleading people is not the "goal of truth" right?

It doesn't matter what our founding father felt about religion? Are you serious about this? Historical revisionism is convenient for the atheist.

January 7, 2009 at 6:53 PM
homesicksooner said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
January 7, 2009 at 6:57 PM
john evans said...

I don’t believe it is a false premise. And when I suggest it doesn’t matter what the religious beliefs of our founding fathers were I mean tradition should never be weighted heavier than justice. Our founding fathers also had slaves. Should we have been tied to those beliefs? They believed women had no right to vote? Why should their religious beliefs be any more worthy of maintaining than other beliefs.

January 8, 2009 at 5:02 PM
homesicksooner said...

Fair enough for now . . at least on the tradition and slavery issue.

It's still false to say that the phrase "under God" in the pledge is un-American. A study of early American history shows that the phrase is not un-American.

January 9, 2009 at 6:16 AM
john evans said...

If the “justice for all” part of the pledge is considered American, then the reference to “God” is unjust and therefore unamerican to millions of americans who are left to feel like second class citizens—or worse, not citizens at all—as George Bush suggested of atheists.

January 9, 2009 at 10:43 AM

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